It may be a time that every newspaper editor should receive a respectful letter to note the quiet faith and integrity of a Chriistian who mildly and firmly followed his Lord even when it meant complete ostracism. Worshiping in spirit and in Truth cost Ray and Cynthia dearly dearly.
not a captive
JoinedPosts by not a captive
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The Grandest "witness" that each of us could give to the world looks to be shortly upon us. Will you be there? (In honor of Ray Franz)
by StoneWall inmany of us are aware of the stroke that raymond franz had yesterday,.
that he is on life support and it doesn't look like he is going to pull through.. someone on another thread mentioned if he didn't survive how many.
was planning on attending his funeral.. to me this deserves its own thread.. .
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Jesus disses corporation-led religion??
by not a captive inwe were told that the right corporate "doctrine" makes the right group activity.
but words attributed to jesus at matthew 7 make me wonder if jesus wasn't discouraging that.
a small sample--.
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not a captive
Hello, SisoNoSiso! Welcome.
I note your mention of Luke 9:50--it is the same account that appears in Mark 9:38-50 which I have in my last post.
that the chief role of institutional religion is to safeguard orthodoxy. Jesus was WAY more generous toward folks not in the "mainstream" or "in the know" than his own disciples were.
Maeve
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Jesus disses corporation-led religion??
by not a captive inwe were told that the right corporate "doctrine" makes the right group activity.
but words attributed to jesus at matthew 7 make me wonder if jesus wasn't discouraging that.
a small sample--.
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not a captive
So more people are turning to Christ without an affiliation with any organization. Sometimes they gather together, in person or on forums like this one, but they are keeping their faith in Christ and Christ alone. History and personal experiences have taught people that organizations are made of men, and too many of them are not worthy of trust.
All we can do is to do our best to live according to the love and mercy that Jesus taught.
Tammy, It seems to me that that is what Jesus expected to happen. Paul tried to set reasonable , practical guidelines. But as he so often says, most particularly in Galatians, do not fall back law. Faith and the Spirit will hold the Body together.
"My church doesn't bother me". If that is the highest praise we have of our present church then it proves the violence faith suffers under institutional deacons, institutional elders, institutional overseers, institutional "food". Christian gatherings do not benefit believers when we can repeat proper doctrine and no longer have faith in the son of the living God.
Can such a thing as church "work" without the impersonal hierarchy of religion? Only if there is holy spirit.
As far the problem of how to safe guard the congregations against the wolves: Apparently Jesus thought that a dedicated and healthy disciple would be well able to distinguish the difference between a true christian and a wolf--mainly because the truly dedicated have good motive "By their fruits you will know them."is how believers protect themselves. Much as you considered how you felt about the issues on this thread before you waded into it. You have good motive. and no body can make that happen in you. That this perceptive power is vested in each believer makes sense-- for any who gravitate toward such a false teacher, what can you do to stop them any way? Their heart is involved.
As far the thought of not fellowshipping with a person who has made themself an enemy of the faith? As I understand how Jesus viewed those who "hear the will of God and do it" Jesus envisioned more latitude in christian brotherhood than we now have in churches (Mark 9:38-50)
Is brotherhood an institutionally mandated relationship or a reasonable relationship considering the shared dedication and love we have for God and man? There is no fear factor in the counsel to associate with others who are seeking the Way of Christ and who are not in our "denomination" (I belong to Apollos, I belong to Paul!) Losing rigid conformity makes a genuine conversation about the way of God not only possible but more likely. Between believers and non-believers alike.
Just look at this forum.
Finally, it seems to me that when a person act as a Christian, God gets the Glory.
When we work for an institution the institution gets top billing--never God.
Holy spirit has to work to make Jesus Way clear for us. We'll fight forever if only the words in a book lead our way.
This is what I missed in the WTS
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Jesus disses corporation-led religion??
by not a captive inwe were told that the right corporate "doctrine" makes the right group activity.
but words attributed to jesus at matthew 7 make me wonder if jesus wasn't discouraging that.
a small sample--.
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not a captive
Holy Spirit has no part of abelievers life if it is meted out to only a few and subject to a 2/3 vote.
Obviously Jesus cast his vote against the majority in his religion.
Jesus did die a faithful man, he died a Jew. He said salvation was of/originated with the Jew but he also told Pilate "For this reason I was born and came into the world: to bear witness to the Truth."
Just because wolves have been tearing up the household of God for centuries doesn't mean we have to sew them sheep's costumes today.
Structures that do any more than exercise moral authority and create that lively interchange without racking the truth out of the faithful do fulfill the role of being fellow workers for the joy of others.
There is no way Jesus would promote the construction of a religious corporation. They have no individual soul. they have no collective soul as a corporation.
The Body of Christ is far more spiritual but it is not ethereal.
The power of the loosely structured believers in Acts was through the visible power of Holy Spirit.
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thankyou all who have shown support to me and goodbye for now x
by looloo ini first came on this site around the time we were waiting the my daughters abuser to face justice in crown court , we got no justice (due to lack of evidence) but his other victims had a very small section of the abuse they suffered legally recognised , due to a deal being done with the defence , so we waited 20 months to give evidence just to be dropped at the last minute for a "deal" my by now ex best friend decided to stand by the child rapist !as did some of his family despite him being a disfellowshipped person (he was not disfellowshipped for child abuse ) and they are all jws !
isold my house and left the town i once loved as i couldnt bare to be in the same town as him when he left prison (he did 18 months of a 3 year sentence ) and see his supportive family knocking on doors taliking of truth made me feel like screaming at them "what about my poor girl , wheres your support for her , you hypocrites "my daughter is still very much affected by what happened to her age 13 , sexual, physical and mental abuse over months and months .
but i also have a 6 year old girl who was only 20 months old when i found out and reported the abuse to the police , and the long process started , for the next 20 moths i could think of nothing but giving evidence in court and trying to support my girl who was also terrified of that , my little one was 3 and a half when he was sentenced and i looked back and realised i had hardley taken any notice of her since i found out about my other girls abuse , i had missed out on so much of her best times , learning new words etc , i was too preoccupied .
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not a captive
I hope you have an outrageously wonderful summer.
There is no God of doom and gloom, or how could one like Jesus come who reached out to the little children? How could one live who was so kind that the street urchins called out and made a ruckus for him "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord"?
Have a blessed summer.
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not a captive
Mrs Jones! Happy Birthday! AND MANY MORE!
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I used to be an apologist as well, however no more
by gubberningbody init's funny how when you think you've gotten queued up in the paradise line how you'll pooh pooh detractors.. age has a way of sobering you up.. of course the internet was a great help.. if you want to find out what's wrong with anything, all you have to do is select the topic and throw in a pejorative, and bam!, you've got hundreds if not thousands of people who'll give you the other side.. if you've not in a jw family, and you're not a mental troglodyte, i can't see anyone making that koolaid-bath plunge into jw-land..
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not a captive
Glad you you found out you were still 'humble, hungry and honest' enough to jump ship!
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Ray Franz has had a stroke
by coffee_black injust setting the record straight.
there is another thread that notes a claim on wiki that said that ray has died.. he had a stroke yesterday, and is in the hospital.
he is still alive.
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not a captive
Rays books and the videos posted on youtube were something I thought about a lot on my way out of captivity.
We all die . I hope God's mercy will spare them the larger parts of pain that the end can bring. I pray that Cynthia has a sense of peace and privilege for having partenered with such a man who helped others who suffered in the WT.
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Jesus disses corporation-led religion??
by not a captive inwe were told that the right corporate "doctrine" makes the right group activity.
but words attributed to jesus at matthew 7 make me wonder if jesus wasn't discouraging that.
a small sample--.
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not a captive
Is it likely that early Christians who had no written catechism would be bound by more than the moral authority of the Apostles? Their genuine primacy would give their teaching the merit it deserved.
The quality of personal responsibility is undone if the authority was not conceded to them rather than being demanded by them. I have found no way to reconcile this personal responsibility Jesus gave his "lowest ranking" followers with the obligations official religious bodies demanded later
It may not be incidental that this first example of a meeting of elders and apostles resulted in loosing rather than binding new laws on the brotherhood
Genuinely dedicated followers always insure the healthiest body of Christ. The surest way to destroy it is by vesting the operation of the spirit in men instead of Christ. Mt.23:8-11 . In Galatians Paul's eloquent pleas to come out from under law and operate in faith are clear: "for if righteousness is through law, Christ actually died for nothing." And, for me, Paul's word's at chapter 31-14 make the case completely. He appeals to the story of the untutored Abraham, man of primitive faith. Guided, not by Christ and not holy spirit but by a very rudimentary faith. "The righteous will live by faith. The law is not based on faith: on the contrary..."
We know what happens when holy spirit is the monopoly of a Governing Body. They become law makers for the rest of us. What faith we take into such a religious structure is sucked away.
Do you think a tight corporation is really how holy spirit is going to keep the Body of Christ together?
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what kind of music does an atheist have at their funeral
by loosie inyesterday was the day my family went out to the cemetary in my dad's home town to clean up the headstone and leave flowers and such.
now this town is small and rural.
afterwards we went back to the community center for the annual potluck.
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not a captive
A memorial and a bag of ashes is cheap and very beautiful.
When my friend Nancy died every thing was hard for people ,including her husband, to get things together for a gathering very soon after her death. So a date for a year later gave everyone a chance to plan to get there. We had a chance to think of her. We made a potluck and those of us who had never met each other before from different times and places introduced ourselves and told Nancy stories--She was a real character. Then her husband John put her ashes over the meditation garden she had made with rocks and planted on the hillside by their home in the woods.
Only thing we needed was some good music!